Christian Nationalism and Public Education: The Cost of Disinformation (Warren Throckmorton; The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Formerly Telling Jefferson Lies podcast)

The episode begins with a role play of a teacher presenting a history lesson right out of the Christian nationalist playbook. Mrs. Johnson's students try to help her with questions but she doesn't take the help. Her disinformation campaign continues until slavery comes up and then the lesson abruptly ends. Could this happen? A better question is, what do we do now that it is happening in some schools around the nation.

In this segment, I present another excerpt from the Texas State Board of Education which illustrates how Christian nationalist disinformation permeates opposition to public education. In this scenario a parent brings in David Barton's discredited book, The Jefferson Lies, as an authority and refuses to address a challenge to it. The parent appears not to know the book was pulled from publication due to historical errors.

There is a long history of conflict in public schools over religious differences. However, if religion is kept out of public education, this conflict could be avoided. A robust doctrine of separation of church and state is beneficial for public schools and should be enforced.
Interview: 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/christian-nationalism-and-public-education-the/id1720424853?i=1000776082608

The Texas Board of Education and Ruby Bridges: What Whitewashing Looks Like (Warren Throckmorton; The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Formerly Telling Jefferson Lies podcast)

Throckmorton says:

This is an opportunity to observe whitewashing as it happened. The Texas State Board of Education has been revising social studies standards for students in K-12. One member wanted to remove a description of why Ruby Bridges was special in civil rights history. As the first Black child to enter an all-white school in the American South, Bridges helped open doors that are still opening.

In this segment, I provide audio of the Board meeting which demonstrates the majority efforts to push aside minority concerns about the contribution of Bridges and representation in an accurate history. One of the board members who helped lead the successful effort to keep Bridges in the standards, Staci Childs Davis, joins me to talk about the meeting and her reactions to it.

In the second half of this segment, I critique Donald Trump's patriotic education initiative and speak to Jemar Tisby about whitewashing on a national scale as we move through the 250th birthday of the nation. This segment is a highlight of the season.

Interview: 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-texas-board-of-education-and-ruby/id1720424853?i=1000775119714

 

Is America a Christian Nation Because States Once Required Religious Tests? (Warren Throckmorton; The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Formerly Telling Jefferson Lies podcast)

Warren Throckmorton says:

Chapter 4 of The Christian Past That Wasn't takes up the question of this episode. This episode cites the book and expands on it as well.

In sum, I take the position that the experience of colonial and state governments are historically interesting but not directly relevant to our secular system of Constitutional government.

What the framers did in the Constitutional Convention is what is relevant.

In the book, I fact check claims about what the states required for office holders and I examine the ways different states handled church and state relationships. There was the Williams Way (Rhode Island and to some degree the mid-Atlantic states) and the Winthrop Way (Massachusetts and everybody else). This is not to say that America is a secular nation culturally speaking. If anything, the nation became more culturally Christian after the founders passed from the scene.

One of the reasons the founding era was reframed as a Christian founding was due to the heavy influence of Christianity in the expanding nation.

Produced, written, and hosted by Warren Throckmorton Slippery Rock University history professor Aaron Cowan and Dartmouth College religion professor Randall Balmer make appearances in this episode. Music by Jonas Fair, Jeremiah Lawson, and Netop. Book ordering options at www.christianpast.com.

Interview:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-christian-past-that-wasnt-formerly-telling/id1720424853?i=1000769661693

America is Not a Covenant Nation (Warren Throckmorton; The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Formerly Telling Jefferson Lies podcast)

In this segment, Throckmorton discusses clips of VP JD Vance, Eric Metaxas, and Sen. Josh Hawley making various covenant oriented claims.

Interview: 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/america-is-not-a-covenant-nation-the-christian/id1720424853?i=1000768502747

This Present Moment - Interview with Todd Allen (Warren Throckmorton; The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Formerly Telling Jefferson Lies podcast)

"Today I interview Todd Allen, Founder of the Common Ground Project and administrator at Messiah University (PA). Todd and I talk about his work in civil rights education and history. We also discuss my forthcoming book, The Christian Past That Wasn't. Todd is an enthusiastic endorser of the book and makes a good case for why it is needed as the administration is manipulating history of the founding era."

Interview: 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-present-moment-interview-with-todd-allen/id1720424853?i=1000764113947

Evidence the American System Was Not Founded on Christianity - Bonus Episode (Warren Throckmorton; The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Formerly Telling Jefferson Lies podcast)

Throckmorton says:

America as we celebrate it today was founded in stages. Independence came via the Declaration of Independence and the Revolutionary War. Our current system of government came later via the Constitutional Convention in 1787. In this short episode, I focus on the system created by the Constitution as amended by the Bill of Rights.

Interview: 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/evidence-the-american-system-was-not-founded-on/id1720424853?i=1000767826669

 

The Christian Past That Wasn’t - An Origin Story (Warren Throckmorton; The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Formerly Telling Jefferson Lies podcast)

Throckmorton writes:

Why did I write The Christian Past That Wasn't? Answering that question requires me to revisit season one of the podcast and reflect on the rise of Christian nationalism in the African nation of Uganda in 2009. 

More recently, my work in fact-checking started with a pundit named Bryan Fischer who once broadcast on the American Family Association radio network. As I contended with Fischer, I found out that most of his material came from David Barton. 

Ultimately, my views changed from an inconsistent combination of Baptist distinctives and American civil religion to where I am today -- a strong supporter of separation of church and state. I wrote the new book to shed light on the heritage of religious tolerance and pluralism in the United States.

You can now order the book at Amazon or Barnes and Noble. Other options can be found at http://www.christianpast.com.
Interview: 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/conspirituality/id1515827446?i=1000718059904

MAGA group pushes expanded religious test for judicial nominees (MSNBC)

"In a fundraising email sent Tuesday, AFA Action CEO Walker Wildmon revealed that the group is also seeking to apply its religious worldview test to judges for the lower courts, which he calls ‘a crucial, much-needed expansion of CJR’s scope.’ Walker makes the group’s Christian nationalist agenda for the courts quite clear, writing that ‘if America is ever going to return to its Christ-centered, constitutional roots, it’s up to us.’ In return for a ‘generous gift,’ the group will send donors a copy of the widely debunked Christian nationalist pseudo-historian David Barton’s ‘God in the Constitution.’ Wildmon’s email also brags about the group’s involvement in Project 2025, the Heritage Foundation-led project to engineer a far-right takeover of the executive branch if Donald Trump or another Republican is elected president this fall."

https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/american-family-association-biblical-worldview-judges-rcna157247 

Telling Jefferson Lies: Conspiracy of Silence (Warren Throckmorton)

After David Barton's book The Jefferson Lies was pulled from publication in August, 2012, some Christian organizations wrote critical articles and publicly distanced themselves from Barton and Wallbuilders. Other groups some were caught off guard. The leaders of these groups knew they had false and misleading material being offered to their constituents, but they didn’t make any moves to remove it.

This episode examines how two of those organizations, Family Research Council and Focus on the Family, handled the situation. I wish I could say this episode has a happy ending. Ultimately, what began as a conspiracy of silence ended even quieter than it started.

From the episode: 

"What is so important about those stories that the leadership of a Christian organization would decide that deception and gaslighting are good strategies? Where in the manual for running a Christian organization does it say to hide the truth when someone points out that you are spreading misinformation?"

Guests today: 

• Fred W. Beuttler was Deputy Historian of the U. S. House of Representatives from 2005 to 2010. He currently teaches history and government at The University of Chicago’s Graham School for Continuing Liberal and Professional Studies. 
• Jay Case is professor of history at Malone College in Akron Ohio, 
• Jared Burkholder is professor of history at Grace College in Winona Lake, Indiana, 
• Gregg Frazer is Dean of Humanities at The Master’s University in Santa Clarita, CA and 
• Katherine Stewart is the author of The Power Worshippers and The Good News Club.

Interview: 

https://www.podbean.com/ew/dir-y9aws-1d97b7c3

Telling Jefferson Lies: Whitewashing Jefferson, Part Two (Warren Throckmorton)

This is a continuation of last week's episode on whitewashing Jefferson. Today, we specifically take on Barton's contention that Jefferson was a civil rights hero for African Americans and was a strong anti-slavery advocate during his entire life.

In fact, after 1784, Jefferson's promising beginning as an opponent of slavery faded away. While he continued to advocate emancipation, he linked it with deportation. He always believed that Blacks and Whites could not live together in one nation. He dedicated himself to the business of slavery and as president, supported the expansion of the American slave trade into Louisiana.

Today's episode is hosted by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter. We are pleased to have Monticello librarian Anna Berkes, historian Troy Jackson, attorney and theologian Joel McDurmon, and author and historian Jemar Tisby join us for this episode.

Next week's episode is titled Conspiracy of Silence and deals with fallout from The Jefferson Lies and the response of Family Research Council and Focus on the Family to their awareness that they were promoting false and misleading historical information via their organizations.
Interview: 

https://www.podbean.com/ew/dir-krptp-1d7d1d34

Telling Jefferson Lies: Whitewashing Jefferson, Part One (Warren Throckmorton)

Why did Thomas Nelson pull David Barton's book The Jefferson Lies from publication in 2012? Last week, we started to answer that question. This week we continue to provide specific illustrations of the historical errors which triggered that unprecedented move by Thomas Nelson.

In this episode, we focus on the errors regarding race and slavery. We spend a significant amount of time demonstrating how David Barton deliberately omitted parts of the 1782 Virginia law on manumission. We submit he did this to whitewash Jefferson's record and actions as an enslaver of human beings. Even if this whitewashing was not intentionally racist, the obstruction of the record regarding racism, according to our guests, conspires with people who are racist to maintain a societal environment where racism endures.

In this episode, hosts Michael Coulter and Warren Throckmorton are joined by historian and author Jemar Tisby, historian Troy Jackson, attorney and theologian Joel McDurmon, historian Gregg Frazer, and pastor and social worker Joel Bowman to reflect on the whitewashing of Jefferson. We also hear from pastor Ray McMillian who asks a critical question: Can we eradicate racism if we have racists as heroes?
Interview: 

https://www.podbean.com/ew/dir-nwpnk-1d649244

Telling Jefferson Lies, Bonus Episode: "God's Honest Truth" (Warren Throckmorton)

Since the founding era, Christian nationalists have told and believed myths about the founders and their religious views. Paul Matzko, historian and researcher with the Cato Institute and Anna Berkes, librarian at Monticello's Jefferson Library talk to me about the persistence of these stories throughout the history of the U.S.

Then, I fact-check a fable involving Thomas Jefferson and Daniel Webster which has been lately told by Eric Metaxas and David Barton but has been around since 1858. This is an episode which demonstrates how to examine the context and facts of historical claims. Specifically, I address the claims that Thomas Jefferson told Daniel Webster, "I have always said, and I always will say, that the studious perusal of the sacred volume will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands."

The next regular episode -- Whitewashing Jefferson -- will come out on February 21.

There is much more about these fables in our book Getting Jefferson Right. More information about the book is at GettingJeffersonRight.com.
Interview: 

https://www.podbean.com/ew/dir-ztaqt-1d47cba5

Telling Jefferson Lies Episode 4: Getting Jefferson Right (Warren Throckmorton)

What was so wrong with The Jefferson Lies that Thomas Nelson decided to pull the book from publication? In this episode, Michael Coulter and Warren Throckmorton start answering that question by pulling material from their book, Getting Jefferson Right.

In this episode, we take long looks into Barton’s handling of the Danbury Baptist letter to Thomas Jefferson, the Jefferson Bible, and a fable about Jefferson and church attendance. We show how the use of ellipses, second and third-hand sources, and a creative imagination can make historical fiction out of history.

SHOW NOTES:

The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth (The 1820 Jefferson Bible)
https://uuhouston.org/files/The_Jefferson_Bible.pdf

Letter from the Danbury Baptists
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-35-02-0331

Letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-36-02-0152-0006

Interview: 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/telling-jefferson-lies/id1720424853?i=1000644586687

Telling Jefferson Lies, Episode 3: The Cataclysm (Warren Throckmorton)

In 2012, only four months after release, publisher Thomas Nelson removed David Barton's book The Jefferson Lies from publication. Many people blamed or credited a book by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter titled Getting Jefferson Right for moving the publisher in that direction. What happened?

Building on the foundation of the first two episodes, this installment in the Telling Jefferson Lies series provides the backstory to what was an unprecedented event for one of the largest Christian publishers in the nation. Warren Throckmorton interviews many of the people who were involved and supplies his perspective on what happened and why it happened.

Interviews with historians Greg Forster, Glenn Sunshine, Gregg Frazer, Glenn Moots, Troy Jackson, David Austin Walsh, journalist Bob Smietana and Getting Jefferson Right co-author Michael Coulter pull back the curtain on an event that exposed the deficits in Christian nationalist story telling.
Interview: 

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8yMjg2NzUyLnJzcw/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC0xNDQxNzk0OQ?sa=X&ved=0CAYQuIEEahcKEwjgwOz_qZCEAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ

Show Notes:

For more information about Getting Jefferson Right, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.

Telling Jefferson Lies is written and produced by Warren Throckmorton. Today’s installment was hosted by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter. The podcast is brought to you by the second edition of Getting Jefferson Right: Fact Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson by Throckmorton and Coulter and available at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop.org or just about anywhere books are sold.

For more information, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.

Today’s closing song is Sparkle by Dustin Blatnik. Telling Jefferson Lies Theme song is The World Awaits Us All by Roman Candle. Background music was provided by Jonathan Swaim, Dustin Blatnik, Larry Norman and Warren Throckmorton.

For more information about Dustin Blatnik, go to www.DustinBlatnik.com

For more music from Roman Candle, go to Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3V65gQpFTfYzIOqjOf18eS

At the end of the series, watch for a playlist of as many songs from the series as I can compile on Spotify and Amazon.

Dreams on a Grey Afternoon appears courtesy of Charles Norman and the Larry Norman estate.

Please like the podcast and spread the word on social media. Every podcaster says that but it really does help and it makes us feel good too.

Telling Jefferson Lies, Episode 2: Where's Waldo the Anointed? (Warren Throckmorton)

"You know, he is the where's Waldo of the movement. He's a little bit everywhere." Katherine Stewart, author of Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Christian Nationalism.

"He's managed to create a kind of brand in a way for himself through Wallbuilders of being a trusted authority on the American past." Randall Stephens, professor of American Studies at the University of Oslo in Norway.

In this episode, we examine how David Barton bounced back from his early problems and thrived by creating a brand as a trusted authority on American history. His packed schedule of activities and organizations made him indispensable to the Christian right.

We also examine what makes the Christian nationalist message so attractive to evangelicals and why many may not care about allegations of bad history or faulty facts.

This episode sets up the next episode, The Cataclysm, which will tell what happened to David Barton's book The Jefferson Lies, the book that was pulled from publication by Thomas Nelson after only being out for 4 months.
Interview: 

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8yMjg2NzUyLnJzcw/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC0xNDM2OTI0MQ?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwiI667XxIuEAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQEw

Telling Jefferson Lies -- Episode 1: America’s Premier Historian: Origin Story (Warren Throckmorton)

In April 2012, Thomas Nelson published The Jefferson Lies, a book about Thomas Jefferson written by David Barton. By August of the same year, the publisher had removed the book from publication. What happened?

This series tells that story and so much more.

Just over a decade later, the Speaker of the House of Representatives declared his thanks to the same David Barton for his work in history.

This series explores how historical revisionism persists even when it can be demonstrated that the facts are not there.

First, I provide some context for the current characters. In this initial installment, I go back and pick up the origin story of David Barton and his entrance into Christian nation storytelling. Although he has no academic preparation as a historian, that fact hasn't dissuaded evangelicals from flocking to hear him. As is sometimes the case, evangelicals use religious similarity as a misleading signal of expertise. This sets up the story of how The Jefferson Lies was pulled from publication and the role of Getting Jefferson Right in that event.

More broadly, the expert historians and scholars I have interviewed will help us understand the pitfalls of Christian nationalism and the revisionist history which sustains it. Ultimately in the series, I want to explore the remarkable American story of religious pluralism and freedom of conscience.

In this episode, Julie Ingersoll, John Fea, Rob Boston, and Gregg Frazer provide insightful commentary.
Interview:

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8yMjg2NzUyLnJzcw/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC0xNDMyMTAxMw?sa=X&ved=0CAYQuIEEahcKEwj45q-Yv4uEAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ

A Georgia Republican's Top 3 Priorities (Hemant Mehta and Jessica Bluemke, The Friendly Atheist podast #422)

— Kandiss Taylor, a wannabe governor of Georgia, has no respect for church/state separation. (3:19)

— An Arkansas official brazenly bragged about pushing Christianity at government meetings. (14:30)

— A "quieter approach" to atheism isn't necessarily a bad thing. (24:10)

— A Tennessee senator used Hitler as an example of someone overcoming homelessness. (38:40)

— A Tennessee cop baptized a woman against her will. A judge says the lawsuit can continue. (44:19) (UPDATE: The woman in question was found dead Wednesday night. The cause of death is unknown. We did not know about that when we were discussing this story on Thursday.)

— David Barton is spreading a new lie about churches and the Constitution. (53:41)

— There's a new member of the Congressional Freethought Caucus and it's a non-story. (1:00:17)
Interview: 

https://audioboom.com/posts/8067283-ep-422-a-georgia-republican-s-top-3-priorities

Christian Predator Josh Duggar is Going to Jail (Hemant Mehta and Jessica Bluemke, The Friendly Atheist podast #404)

— The future of the Friendly Atheist blog. (1:12)

— Christian predator Josh Duggar is going to jail after being found guilty in his child sex abuse image trial. (3:22)

— Can you be friends with someone from the other political party? (21:08)

— The Supreme Court seems like it will force taxpayers to subsidize religious schools. (24:40)

— Evangelist Joshua Feuerstein, who spread vaccine lies, now has COVID. (31:05)

— Evangelist Franklin Graham can’t decide whether or not he wants vaccines to work. (34:10)

— Should we tell Pastor Joel Osteen, to his face, that he’s horrible? (41:15)

— People are mad over Rep. Madison Cawthorn‘s anti-abortion “earthen vessels” speech for the wrong reasons. (57:01)

— A Methodist church fired its pastor after he had a drag makeover on TV to show his allyship. (1:00:17)

— MAGA world’s “gun girl” says she’s ditching atheism for Catholicism. (1:04:58)

— Christian pseudo-historian David Barton says the Second Amendment gives people the right to own nuclear weapons. (1:09:23)

— A Catholic diocese is officially banning unrepentant trans people from receiving the sacraments. (1:13:42)
Interview: 

https://audioboom.com/posts/7994718-ep-404-christian-predator-josh-duggar-is-going-to-jail